Interview with Hecheres Beltrán

Here in spanishgayfiction.blogspot.com we appreciate the honesty displayed by the author of Billete de ira y vuelta, Hecheres Beltrán (Santa Cruz de Tenerife, 1978). Considering his words, writing the novel must have been a way to exorcise demons from the past. We hope that the reader who is suffering or has suffered from bullying pays close attention to this interview, as it is the speech of someone who was a victim and is now recovered from all that emotional pain. In sum, an inspiring story.

SPANISH GAY FICTION: Up to what point can you say that Billete de ira y vuelta is an autobiographical novel?

HECHERES BELTRÁN: This novel is full of autobiographical elements, but not entirely. I was a bullying victim myself, hence my need to tell a story connected to this subject. In my case, and in the time that I had to suffer from bullying, it was shame that made me conceal from my people what was happening to me.

SGF: Do you feel that there is much contemporary LGBT literature on school bullying, or is your novel one of the few examples?

HB: School bullying is a social issue rather recently regarded. In the past, bullying was disguised by adults responsible as things that kids come up with. Not until the people who have undergone it could tell the consequences that this abuse causes has society become aware of the magnitude of the problem. From my point of view, the visibility that has come from the popularization of the internet, where every kind of cases and experiences has been shown and/or denounced, has played an essential role as well.

It is also necessary to make clear that bullying is a problem that affects us all, since it can come from any given circumstance: race, gender, physique, sexual orientation, etc. I do believe that there is much literature on several of these circumstances, but literature on gay bullying may be scarce due to the fact that LGBT visibility is a rather new thing too. There have always been different sexual orientations, but their integration and normalization in society are still in progress, therefore it is reasonable that there are not many books on this subject.

SGF: How much do you understand Javier’s outlook and reactions?

HB: I totally understand his outlook because his experiences are based on my own ones, and his feelings are taken from what I was feeling in those days. The only thing that distances me from the character is his anger, since some time ago I left it behind and forgave everyone who hurt me. It is not healthy to keep all those hard feelings inside yourself. Hate will never let you be happy; I understood it once, and carried out an amazing acceptance exercise that made me get rid of negative feelings which did not lead to anything good.

SGF: What role does Billete de ira y vuelta play in your work?

HB: For the moment I can say that every one of my books is a world. They are dissimilar to one another, and largely due to my constant attitude to learn new things. I like getting into different genres, learning their ins and outs in order to produce, with varying degrees of success, the stories that strike me later. None of them is my number one; they all are important parts of my life and witnesses to my internal process (maturing), and external process (style polishing).

SGF: What does Madrid mean to a Spanish young gay small town boy?

HB: Freedom. Eclecticism. Diversity. Learning.

SGF: After witnessing the father’s homophobic attack against Javier, the mother asks her husband whether he must be hiding something. What did you mean by that?

HB: Fear is a very difficult thing to explain, as it is a very primeval instinct which has helped us keep alive for a long time. But homophobia is not the only fear, there are many others, such as, in this case, the need to give an explanation to the mistreatment that a father metes out to his own son before a frightened mother’s very eyes; the demand for an answer to such behavior towards the one who is supposed to be your main, absolute priority. That is what I meant.

SGF: When the novel seems to lean towards the romantic genre, it suddenly takes a turn and dives into the thriller chasm. I would even dare to say the horror chasm. Would you say that your novel affirms the idea that violence only begets violence? Could it be said that Javier is a monster created by abusers such as Rayco, Alejandro, or his own father?

HB: While I was writing, I bore in mind references such as the film PacificHeights (1990); those stories seeming to lead one direction and then turning the whole thing around. Also Psycho (1960), for instance: a movie about a theft at first, and then a psychopath shows up in an astonishing twist which everybody knows. I wanted to produce something like that; that is the germ of the plot structure in Billete de ira y vuelta.

From my viewpoint, violence does only beget violence. And resentment, hatred and every kind of worthless, unwholesome feelings. But above all, the novel intends to reflect the avenging feeling, which beats inside us even though we are not aware (or we do not want to be), and blows up with certain triggers. That is why the protagonist eventually behaves like his attackers.

SGF: If you were in Javier’s shoes, would you accept the mother’s invitation, or would you flatly refuse to set foot in there again?

HB: I have been in Javier’s shoes [Laughs]. I gave life to him and suffered a lot with him. This novel was the beginning of a cathartic process in which I gave up negative feelings, as I have already said. You need to be at peace with the past, and it may take a long time to achieve this. You must accept invitations when you are ready to face what may happen when you stir up the past. Although you never can tell what is going to happen, feel up to find out at least; otherwise the situation can get worse. In answer to your question, regarding the way that Javier is presented in the novel, no, I would not.

SGF: It is understandable that Javier distrusts Manuel at first. Do you think that it is possible to fall in love with someone who took part in your humiliations? Can you come to forgive so much?

HB: You can forgive even more than that. Fortunately, love is mightier than any other feeling. I believe that this can truly happen, otherwise I would have not written it.

SGF: When he was a child, Javier explained his teacher the abuse that he was suffering and she tried to play it down. I feel that many teachers have acted and go on acting like this. Why do you think that they act this way?

HB: The answer is similar to the one that I have given before: there was no bullying awareness in the past. “There have always been bullies; they will get over it when they grow up,” this is what people used to think. But nobody spoke about the consequences that you could suffer after being bullied. Until today. In my opinion, teachers must pay attention to this kind of things and act accordingly. An attitude of looking the other way and downplaying is not only a mistake: it is similar to non-assistance to a person in danger.

SGF: What is your opinion about the current situation? Do you think that they are really applying zero-tolerance policy in Spanish primary and secondary schools?

HB: I feel that we still do not give it the importance that it deserves; not only in Spain, but worldwide. If we did, there would be no bullied children’s suicides, for example. But I think that now we are aware of the fact that it is a problem and it must be main objective in the country’s education policy.

SGF: Regarding the quote by Balzac which you end the novel with (“In revenge, the weakest one is always the fiercest”),[1] would you say that Javier was the weakest one in the story? His revenge is dreadful—

HB: Exactly. Javier was the weakest among his classmates, who did not act individually but as a group. And the weaker you feel in humiliation and under threat, the more destructive your revenge will be.

SGF: The Canary Islands mean to many gay people, both Spanish and foreign, a vacation spot or even a place of residence. How true is this image of a gay-friendly place?

HB: The Canaries (just as the rest of Spain) has changed too much in this sense in the last 30 years. The novel is written upon the memories that I have from what I lived when I went to school, at the end of 1980s and the beginning of 1990s. But the current situation is the same; they publicize gay-friendly tourism not only for economic reasons, but also because the islanders have become more tolerant. Even in big cities such as Madrid there are homophobic assaults these days, therefore it is not a problem localized in a community, but globally.

SGF: What are you working on now? What are your next projects about?

HB: I keep writing, of course; it is a basic need for me. However, I am a kind of superstitious and never like talking about unfinished projects. Call it a writer’s habit.

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[1] This is the original French version: “Dans la vengeance, le plus faible est toujours le plus féroce.”

Interview with José Carlos Andrés

Please join us to celebrate a party where the center of attention is not the birthday child this time, but the clown: José Carlos Andrés (Madrid, 1969) has talked to us about his book Mi papá es un payaso / My Dad Is a Clown, as well as his experience as a clown and storyteller, his social vindications, the new kinds of families, or the importance of education for children.

SPANISH GAY FICTION: Is Mi papá es un payaso / My Dad Is a Clown your first experience in LGBT literature? Where does the project come from? How familiar are you with the LGBT universe?

JOSÉ CARLOS ANDRÉS: In my view, the story Mi papá es un payaso / My Dad Is a Clown can be labeled (labeling is so exhausting!) as children’s literature. However, there is a potential audience that I would like to aim at: the grown-ups, since the children—if not swayed by their adults—do not question same-sex parenting families.

The story came from the need to introduce to every audience the existence of other types of families, and there are only a few key things about them: love, affection and respect.

That is why the story begins with something that I have been claiming for years: a polite use of vocabulary in our society. Why is clown pejorative, and not lawyer? Are some professions more respectable than others? And, are traditional families more respectable than the others? I want the readers, no matter their age, to enjoy my stories, but also question things at the same time.

Regarding my familiarity with the LGBT universe, I must say that this is part of my life and my culture.

SGF: Why is it published as a bilingual book? Did you intend to cross borders with this book? If that is the case, do you know how it has been accepted abroad?

JCA: Publishing the text in English and Spanish was a decision of Nube Ocho, a publishing house very committed to diversity themes. When same-sex marriage was legalized in Chile, its administration purchased a big amount of Mi papá es un payaso / My Dad Is a Clown books, interested in the portrait of a same-sex parenting family. It is also selling pretty well in Mexican bookstores. Yes, the text is bilingual, but it is actually succeeding in Spanish-speaking countries.

SGF: And what about Spain? Is Mi papá es un payaso / My Dad Is a Clown highly-regarded? Did you expect more of it?

JCA: I know, and the publishing house also knew, that this is not the kind of book that conquers the market. But it was necessary, and the fact that we are right now talking about the story is a sign of this. You could hear good reviews on the story even on a very conservative radio station! This is not a best seller, but the people who have read it say good things about it.

SGF: The story depicts a same-sex parenting family. As far as I know, you use to dramatize your books, so you can see the audience reaction before your very eyes. How does this story use to be accepted? Is there any difference when it is an adult audience instead of children?

JCA: This is a very good question! When I have told this tale I have found a wide range of responses in adults—“Not suitable for children!!”—. From satisfied faces to expressions denoting: “What am I doing here?”

But this is our society. I am not surprised, that is true; I knew what was going to follow after telling this story: for children, this is a nice story, with some funny situations, but for some parents—phew! They had some trouble.

The best thing that happens many times is that, after finishing the storytelling, lots of people come to me and give thanks for it: mothers, fathers. . .EVEN GRANNIES AND GRANDPAS! Something is changing. We are doing something well.

SGF: Is children’s LGBT literature important to you? Do you think that we give importance enough to LGBT education for children in Spain?

JCA: Literature is the most important thing to me: it is my job, my vice and my vocation.

I think that we must not use the LGBT literature for children label. It is literature for children dealing about certain issues—Normal issues such as death, divorce or same-sex parenting families. These issues are still all taboo for many people. However, these issues do exist, and children need that we talk about them.

SGF: Would you highlight any LGBT work for children that you like, or even used as a reference in Mi papá es un payaso / My Dad Is a Clown?

JCA: There are two wonderful illustrated books in which two women fall in love, or there are families of two fathers and two mothers: La princesa Li / Princess Li and El lapicero mágico / The Magic Pencil, by Luis Amavisca.[1]

SGF: Do you believe, as you say in the book, that doctors and clowns are “the most necessary professions in the world”?

JCA: Of course I do! “One heals the body and the other heals the soul.” Although there is another group left: teachers.

In this little story there are many vindications: love in the family, love between two men, opposition to the use of certain words with offensive purposes, dignifying and valuing a profession that our society considers minor (or even worse!), love for a vocation that is your job—I have gone overboard!! [Laughs]

My father was born in 1920; my mother, in 1925. They did not understand that I could proudly say that I was a clown. For them, I was a teacher (that is also true), but a clown—

Saving lives and making people laugh, along with educating children, that is what our society needs. We all know people who have lots of money, but no education. And without health or happiness, what is the use of money?

SGF: There is an intention to dignify the profession of clown throughout the story. To what extent do you think that this occupation, your occupation, is still denigrated? In your case, have you ever felt the need to defend your vocation against contempt or criticism?

JCA: In the story I explain how hard being a clown is. Day after day you need to study, rehearse, shape up. . .Like a doctor. Like a teacher. Like an aeronautical engineer. Why are some more highly regarded than others? Is it a question of salary?

A first team soccer player works hard physically for twenty years in his lifetime, more or less. Then he retires. The best clowns reach their peak in their forties (wonderful exceptions aside).

And of course I have had to stand up for being a clown against many people, but that is because not everybody knows my profession or is sensitive enough or wants to understand the huge effort behind being a clown.

SGF: Is there any autobiographical note in the story, beyond the fact that one of the characters is a clown?

JCA: Unfortunately not. It is just fiction.

SGF: The boy’s final decision (becoming a doctor wearing a clown nose when he grows up) reminded me of the true story reflected in the film Patch Adams,[2] starring the late Robin Williams. Did the film or the story it was based on have any influence when writing the book?

JCA: I love Robin. I say it in present tense, since he will always be alive, but I do not think that his film had any direct influence on me, apart from the fact that, when you are writing, every single thing that you have lived, read, seen or heard leaves a trace that you use in the creative moment.

I wrote the story because I wanted to talk about a boy living with two fathers who are in love. That is all. The rest just came up.

SGF: And what about the illustrations by Natalia Hernández? Did you two previously discuss the style, or did she work freely? For instance, why the exclusive use of colors red, black and white throughout the book, or the fact that the three main characters are bald?

JCA: Natalia’s work was coordinated by Nube Ocho, I had nothing to do with it. But when they sent me the sketching—I LOVED IT ALL!!

There is a very nice story about the colors: In 2007 I set up my clown & theater company, El Clan del Clown, and my friend Joseph Sylvestre, from 1024pixels.com designed its awesome website (he also designed my own website). He chose the company colors—a marketing issue that I was ignorant of—: white (from the whiteface clown), red (the most typical color of the clown), and black (usual to outline contours and the clown’s eyes). And then I found that Mi papá es un payaso / Mi Dad Is a Clown shared the same colors. THAT WAS MAGIC.

I guess that the fact that both dads are bald is because baldness is sexy, natural and sweet, isn’t it? Or just most boys’ fate! [Laughs]

SGF: What are you working on now? What are your next projects?

JCA: I can tell you, secretly and exclusively, that I am focused on creating stories for illustrated books. Two new books will be released this year. And for next year there are two more projects.

Not big deal, but I tell you for sure that it makes me happy. Really happy. Like a clown in a party balloon store.

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[1] Both bilingual books are also published by Nube Ocho.

[2] Patch Adams (1998), directed by Tom Shadyac. Based on the real story of Hunter “Patch” Adams, a revolutionary doctor who founded the Gesundheit! Institute, a project of reforming health care system by complementary therapies, in which the concept of “humanitarian clowning” plays a key role. The film was an astounding box-office success in its time.

Interview with Paloma Pedrero

Here you have an interview with Paloma Pedrero (Madrid, 1957) discussing her play Lauren’s Call…, as well as essential issues such as education, sexuality, relationships, social prejudices, and her next projects. I keenly invite you to enjoy the wisdom of her speech.

SPANISH GAY FICTION: Maybe what attracts me most about Lauren’s Call… is the title. Why did you choose Lauren Bacall among all the stars of Hollywood’s Golden Age? Did you consider her the epitome of femininity? Or, on the contrary, did you find her ambiguous?

PALOMA PEDRERO: She was very feminine and also very masculine. She had both sides.

SGF: By the time the play was first staged, the power of its language was highlighted. Nowadays we are used to listen to the actors expressing this way on the boards but—by then, was it a daring speech?

PP: In 1985, a woman speaking about male sexuality with a really female look was revolutionary. I think today it is still revolutionary.

SGF: What encouraged you to write a play dealing with sexual ambiguity as not only a personal problem but also a social one? Is it an issue you still find interesting?

PP: Yes, I still do find it interesting, for we still behave under very strong social prejudices. I feel we are educated to be heterosexual. But—what if not? I believe that, if we were freer, we would enjoy many more possibilities in relationships. We could play different roles in the heterosexual relationship and make it more creative. There would also be more bisexuality, which means wide outlooks and experiences.

SGF: Did José María Rodríguez Méndez’s play Flor de Otoño (“Autumn Flower”), premiered a few years before, have any influence when you wrote Lauren’s Call...? In your opinion, what is the difference between your approach to transsexualism/transvestism and Rodríguez Méndez’s play, or any other play of that time?

PP: Honestly, I do not think so. The play by the great author Rodríguez Méndez deals about male homosexuality. Lauren’s Call… raises another issue. It discusses the limits that society puts on human relationships, especially marriage. I think that a couple has to be first and foremost the story of a great friendship…Sexuality should not be the center point, but communication, tenderness, understanding—The acceptance of the other’s differences, even his/her pathologies. In order to enjoy a calm and long-lasting relationship, a couple must create, reinvent itself as something unique. Society is still castrating in this sense, setting strict rules that emerge from old, untrue ideas. For example, the way each sex must behave in the relationship. This leads to continuous failure in marriages.  

SGF: Do you remember the premiere of the play?

PP: Just imagine…My first premiere as the author, as well as the female lead, in a hostile context. I really did not know at the time the huge responsibility I was taking, the risk I was running. Anyway, I think that, if I had realized, I would have done the same. I also did not know play and staging could generate so much controversy. I viewed Lauren’s Call… as a great love story, performed with great affection by all the artistic crew. However, the critics and some part of the audience reacted with hostility towards us. I just could not believe it then. I later understood what had happened.

SGF: They say that it was quite controversial in Spain back then. It has been several decades since the premiere, and the play has still been producing. What is the audience response in our days? Do you think the play is still shocking for the majority?

PP: I think it depends a lot on the staging. If I were the director today, surely it would still be shocking. There are so many things we do not know—dare to face—that we even do not talk about them.

SGF: And abroad? What is the reaction to Lauren’s Call… in other countries?

PP: As I have mentioned before, I think it has always depended on how daring the mise-en-scène is.

SGF: Certain negative criticism the play received on the premiere denotes not so much a problem with your work as a playwright but rather some hostility towards the homosexual issue. The play was premiered in Madrid in the mid-1980s—Would you say that there was still a vast homophobic social mindset at the time?

PP: Yes, and it still does exist. But, as I said before, Lauren’s Call… in 1985 did not focus on Pedro’s homosexuality. Alberto Wainer, the director, made a broader, richer interpretation. Why can’t this couple love each other, as this is the case, and be happy? It could be possible if we accepted love in different ways.

SGF: I consider this play is ahead of its time. So ahead that it seems to me that today’s society has still not absorbed its moral teaching. Let me explain—I still see parents who bring up their little children doubtlessly certain that their sexual behavior will be heterosexual when they will grow up. Boys will meet girls, girls will meet boys—They never think about the fact that their offspring may have a different sexuality since childhood. I think that is the reason why, the time they grow up and come out or admit they feel trapped in someone else’s body, some parents still find it so hard to accept. What is your opinion on this matter?

PP: This is a very complicated issue. We would need a congress to talk about this and would not achieve final results. But yes—I do feel we still have not improved at all. People believe that tradition (the usual…, the learned behavior) is the right thing. The normal thing—And this is false. Mankind has lived and written with crooked lines. What is normal? There is no normality. There are different humans with different bodies, genes, substances, brains—That is why behaviors cannot be the same. For example, how can you find normal that half of humanity has set itself up as superior to the other half? There are so many things that we do not know. We live in ignorance, but delightfully, when the only thing that makes sense in life is making a path of knowledge and consciousness. In order to do that, we must leave opinions and prejudices behind and start by looking at ourselves, with no fear to know us. This is the only way we can see the others, accept them, understand them, and even love them.  

SGF: The play leaves a bitter taste indeed. The understanding and generosity that Rosa displays at the end imply a great sorrow and sacrifice—If you had written this play today, do you think that you would have written the same ending?

PP: I would make Rosa realize that it is possible, that Pedro could go to the Carnival party alone and she could sleep in peace and joy. Or she could also go to the party. In the 1985 version, this is suggested. Rosa, when she is left alone, puts on Bogart’s hat and tries to play and accept. But I still might be unsure by then—as she was—Today, even with the same words, I would make her realize that it was possible she could transform herself.

SGF: Do you see Rosa and Pedro, each in their own way, as victims of strict education on sex roles in the past? Could it be made a political interpretation, taking into account that this play was staged in full democracy after several decades of dictatorial regime?

PP: Absolutely. They are victims of that strict, castrating education. But today’s education has not changed as much as we feel. It is still strict and castrating. I have recently published an article in La Razón[1] in this regard. Here you have, just if you want to include it:

“Education”

by Paloma Pedrero

More laws, few considerable changes. We always do the same without thinking twice, not daring to let the true thinkers take the reins of such an essential issue. Almost all of us agree that education is the basis on which mankind rises up. The world to come is growing in the school: an ignorant place, seized by foolish power struggles, or a space where its inhabitants are working to become wiser and better. So, to make this path we must teach our children (apart from Maths and English) to know themselves in order to know the others; to leave prejudices behind, to understand and respect other ways of behaving and feeling. For a good teaching, you have to set love first. That feeling must cover the classroom, the playground, the gym—To respect deeply and let the teachers be independent. Practice what you preach. Teaching the hardest thing for the human: being free, thinking by one’s self, running risks, making efforts to find one’s talent. Transmitting your pupils that every joy comes from one’s own effort. Educating is a sublime act, since good people result from good teachers. People who understand that knowledge is a lifetime task. That is why education must be reconsidered from different angles, less materialistic and more focused on vocation.

Science, indeed—But together with Poetry and Spirituality. The school as a place where you can find the gift that allows to give our best to the others and the world. There will be no room for male chauvinism, mistreatment of the different, or the shame of any kind of violence.[2]

SGF: In the original staging, in which you had the leading role, the so-called fourth wall was used as a mirror. According to the play, both Rosa and Pedro get naked before the mirror. I mentioned before the homophobia issue but, what about nudes? The Spanish audience, after the Destape[3] age, was ready to see clothless players on the boards? Or was it a controversial issue as well?

PP: It is always a controversial matter. Nudity is a very touching thing.

SGF: What are your projects? What are you working on?

PP: My play Ana el once de marzo ("Ana on March 11")[4] has just premiered. Now I am doing some research to write a monologue about Mary Wollstonecraft, a British feminist writer born in 1759. Her intelligence and courage were really impressive. Her life was impressive too.

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[1] This is one of the most popular Spanish newspapers nationwide, in which Pedrero usually collaborates.

[2] This is my translation into English. You can find the original text in Spanish here.

[3] Destape (“Nudity”). After Franco’s death, the Transición Española (“Spanish Transition”) began, a period of political regeneration resulting in the current parliamentary monarchy. At that time, government censorship became more relaxed, and the Spanish audience could thus see actresses (and some actors) totally naked in films, as well as on stage, for the first time. This trend is popularly known as el Destape.

[4] As the reader can easily guess, this play is contextualized in the 3/11 train bombing in Madrid ten years ago. It was the fiercest terrorist attack in Spanish history.