SPANISH GAY FICTION: How important is Desde Londres con glamour bilogy for you in your work up to date?
JULIA ORTEGA: This marks a
milestone in my career. Caprichos del
destino (the 1st part) came after a seven-year hiatus, and from
the very beginning this was a very personal, intimate, almost necessary project
in an emotional viewpoint. This has been an awesome project for me.
SGF: Did you conceive the project as a bilogy since the beginning, or
the second part came later?
JO: Caprichos del destino was supposed to be a stand-alone novel at
first. But several readers went enthusiastic about Gillian, and that encouraged
me to dive deep into her story. I also was sure that I wanted to produce a
situation comedy to balance all the dramatic content of Caprichos del destino—I anticipate that this is a total weeper—.
Since 2014 I seriously started to think of this pair of novels as a whole, but
it has not been too long since I have finally understood the concept as a
bilogy and given a special, exclusive name to it: Desde Londres con glamour.
SGF: Although there are also male characters, in both novels women have
the power. Both Judith and Debbie are the ones who call the shots in their
corresponding relationships with Josh, as a sort of matriarchal society; the
same happens with Saffron’s and Sam’s mothers. Would you say that this depiction
has been a way to highlight the power of women currently, or the power that you
would want women to hold in the future? Is it a reflection of what you have
experienced in your family environment?
JO: Right now I openly say
that I am an ardent feminist—in the best sense of the term, okay? Some people
are not clear about this thing called feminism—. But the women in my fiction do
usually have a strong personality and rule over men. Not old-fashioned men, but
those who do not feel superior and treat women as equals (unlike my
grandmother’s days).
Regarding my family
environment, it is just the opposite. I belong to a family of very submissive,
male chauvinist women. I want no thing
alike at all in my novels—at least in those set in the 21st century.
Entirely different when historical fiction is concerned, where women act
submissively in accordance with old times’ fashion. But in Desde Londres con glamour I look to the future; this is futurist,
though not in a dystopian, sci-fi way. I am an incurable optimist, and I am
certain that future will bring great achievements to women. We have already
reaped great success for long, but this is just the beginning. We have a long
way ahead, and it is very important that women must fight together.
SGF: Women are so predominant (and men are so small) in both novels—no
wonder several lesbian relationships occur throughout their pages. Apart from
real-life psychological explanations, can it be seen as a literary symbol of
the lack of men at the height of these women, as if love between women could be
their only understanding comfort?
JO: This does not arise from
feminist thoughts or inquisitiveness. Caprichos
del destino is certainly based on true facts, and that lesbian triangle did
happen time ago. From that point on I have written a story of women for women,
though, curiously enough, men like it more than initially imagined. I see it as
a very positive attitude, telling the evolution from the macho values towards a new behavior, more tolerant and appropriate
to the century we live in now. Yes, it really could be said that my babes do not find men who make the
grade—at least intellectually and emotionally. In the case of Judith, Josh is a
trophy husband that she can socially boast about; actually, he is a weak
alcoholic man whose weakness too much highlights the strength of the leading
lady in Caprichos del destino.
Regarding Gill and Alex—especially Gill—, I could really say that this is a sheltering love—But I will not say a
word.
SGF: The heterosexual male type is anyhow redeemed in Sam, who is a kind
of sensitive, understanding straight boyfriend, with a pinch of enthusiastic
madness. Did you create Sam with your own personal idea of the perfect
boyfriend type in mind?
JO: [Laughs.] Yes, probably when I was a child (like every little girl),
I have dreamed of my incredibly idealized Prince Charming; that knight in
shining armor, holding firmly his lethal sword, who rescues the maiden from the
usual evil villain’s clutches so as to live in eternal love with her. Sam
really is that knight, though adapted
to the 21st century circumstances. He is a modern, urban knight; a
bit nuts and too absent-minded. But he makes himself loveable—Or that is what
some female readers have claimed.
SGF: Although there are women who love other women in your bilogy, you
also describe inflamed detestations. I refer to Michelle’s towards Judith in Caprichos del destino, or Olimpia’s
towards Gillian in Nuestro lugar en el
mundo. Would you say that your novels support the old saying that women are
their own worst enemies? To what extent do you agree with this statement in
real life, beyond fiction?
JO: Absolutely, you have hit
the nail on the head. There is something you can call hate, and in both cases
you can talk about the binary jealousy/fear. Both women are exaggeratedly
possessive, and dreadfully scared of losing what they do not own, but mainly
they are afraid of being on the shelf,
as my grandmother used to say. Yes, as I said before women must stay together
since there is still a long thorny way ahead. Women facing women, either
straight or gay, do feminism a disservice. Though this may sound quite
old-fashioned, quite suffragette, I am
sorry to say that just a few things have really changed since 1915 up to 2015,
and you only need to see the news to realize that, like it or not, women and
men still do not compete on equal terms. In my personal viewpoint, I only say
that we all are humans, we all have passions and impulses, and from that
undeniable fact on, everything is possible.
SGF: From the whole list of characters, which is the one you can call
Julia Ortega’s alter ego?
JO: Judith, period.[1]
People who know me well see me behind this character. Anyway, Judith and I do
not always go hand in hand, or share the same opinions, or react the same way
under the same circumstances. Because there is a time (I will not go into
detail) when Judith separates from any preconceived notion at all and goes it
alone. Judith is bigger than life: indomitable, rebellious—a free, wild Amazon.
SGF: Is there any character which is not necessarily similar to you, but
you would like to be akin to?
JO: They have asked me this
question before [Laughs.], but I will
answer the same, no matter how many years go by: Alex. Alex. Alex. It is not
only that she is red-haired, or turquoise-eyed, which is something that I go
crazy for; it is almost everything—Anyway, Alex is a totally invented
character, and that may be why I have endowed her with all those divine and
human features that I have always missed in me. Buy I do not think that I am
the only author who does this sort of
things, so I do not regret or find pleasant that this could be held against me.
SGF: In your bilogy you quote pop song lyrics, both Spanish and
international. How important is music for Julia Ortega when writing? They all
are sung by female artists—
JO: Inevitable. Music is
everything to me. I am incredibly sensitive to music; I do not think I could
live without music for more than a day, I mean it! As Caprichos del destino is concerned, every life has their music
score, and that is, of course, Judith’s case. And in Nuestro lugar en el mundo music puts Saffron’s life in motion; she
lives and breathes for and because of music. She can sacrifice everything
except her singing career. And if she had to give up music and public life as
an artist, she would never stop singing in the shower. There are some male
singers amongst my favorites, but it is undeniable that women win by an
overwhelmingly wide margin when I am creating a playlist for any of my novels.
SGF: Your bilogy is set in the future, but it is clear that you rejected
the idea of depicting a world full of inventive devices and fabrications since
the very beginning. Was it a response to this tendency to romanticize about the
coming future beyond any realistic boundary, so usual in futuristic fiction? What
is your opinion about this genre?
JO: The truth is that I feel
that they took the 60’s and 70’s younger generations for a ride through sci-fi
movies, and then we all became disillusioned when 2001 (the space odyssey year) came and nothing
happened. At least nothing that took place in the outer space and concerned
each and every one of us. Well, I had
my own 2001 odyssey, but it had nothing to do with space, and I did not leave
the planet Earth or even my place. And the same happens with New Yorkers after
9/11. Disasters? Yes, but they are all earthly and human. Also I openly admit
my lack of imagination to create this kind of dystopian societies like The Hunger Games (by the way, I do love it!). Anyway, the future that I
have created for that particular universe in which my babes live in is for the next 25 years more or less; I honestly do not
believe that a post-apocalyptic society or civilization could take place in so
little time.
SGF: To continue with the future topic, you present Catalonia as totally
emancipated from Spain. The characters are too critical of this independence.
What is your opinion about this issue now that this is breaking news in any
Spanish TV bulletin?
JO: Jeez!!! I am talking about
this on September, 27.[2]
I wrote that part relating to a hypothetical independent Catalonia at the
beginning of 2014; it should be February more or less, and you could perfectly
see that a commotion would take place, though nobody knew (and nobody still
knows, actually) how it is going to end. I do not think that Ruth, who lives
and works in California nine or ten months a year, is worried; and the same
happens with Gillian, who visits Barcelona as a tourist and does not give a
damn whether Catalonia is independent—unless this would be somewhat detrimental
to her. Judith might have been more controversial about this, but by then she
had already assimilated London lifestyle, and whatever happened to the Spanish
or the Catalonian—she found it irrelevant.
SGF: According to your novels, in two decades’ time homophobia will be
still present in the Western world. Do you think that this tendency is so
difficult to eradicate?
JO: My grandmother used to
say: “Te mastico pero no te trago.”[3] That is to say: people are beginning to
tolerate homosexuality, but they are light years away from accepting it
naturally. Great achievements have been made on paper, and we all are used to
applaud when celebrities come out, but this is just for show. When in small
groups, with family, at home, with reliable friends—then people openly speak
their mind and admit they do not like gay people, as they feel that gays are
disgusting or unnatural—. I can even state that I still experience it myself
today. We are still far away from a total tolerance, and I am not sure up to
what point gay pride marches or any other flamboyant mass celebrations of the
same kind may help the cause—
SGF: Judith Ordóñez is killed by an Islamic terrorist group. You
describe Judith as an outspoken feminist. Do you think Islamism is nowadays a
menace to all the rights that women have achieved after centuries of struggle
in the Western society, and then a menace to the Western culture in general?
JO: Radicalism is shocking. So
is fanaticism. Judith struggles against fanaticism. And it is a fact that now
in the 21st century, religious fanaticism comes from the Middle
East. I am sure that people will say that Christian fanaticism does also exist.
And I do not question it; Protestantism, especially in the USA, can reach a
high level of fanaticism, actually. I mean what I say: I have lived among them for
seven years and I know well their weak points. However, I am much more worried
about Islamic fanaticism, since it is absolutely unfavorable towards women.
Furthermore, the LGBT community is also enduring their homophobic attacks. I
know that they will always defend themselves, claiming that this is not true, that we the Western
people are manipulating reality to
show them as the bad guys. I will not
enter into debates—this would be a never-ending interview otherwise. I only say
that the facts that I was describing in 2009 have unfortunately become much
more prophetic than I would have expected.[4]
SGF: I admit to have a soft spot for villains in fiction since ever.
According to this, you can well understand that my favorite character is
Michelle. I enjoyed her depiction as a twisted, hopelessly mean bitch so much
that I missed her in Nuestro lugar en el
mundo. In fact, you played with the presence of Bárbara here—and then you
never tell what happened to her. Why did you get rid of these characters so
easily in the second part, when they had been so significant in Caprichos del destino?
JO: I confess that I am more
into villains than heroes. They are more human, less self-righteous, more
believable and quite much appealing. You may be missing Michelle in Nuestro lugar en el mundo, but you
should be OK with me when I say that, once Judith is dead, the presence of
Michelle cannot be justified at all. So I had to come up with another bad girl, and then Olimpia was born.
Saffron’s mother could have played a much more important role, though I decided
to leave the Gone with the Wind theme
as a mere funny remark, without further ado.
Regarding Bárbara, she could
have been more prominent in the second part—But we are back into the same
thing; neither Judith, nor Michelle, nor Bárbara have any business in Nuestro lugar en el mundo, mostly
because they are not together anymore. I felt that adding Bárbara in the plot
could mess it up, therefore I decided that this character was not worth it.
SGF: In Caprichos del destino
you defend two awarded Spanish female authors. On one hand, Lucía Etxebarria
and the reference to her Nadal Prize for Beatriz
y los cuerpos celestes (“Beatriz and the Heavenly Bodies”); on the other
hand, Maria de la Pau Janer and her Planeta Prize-winning novel Pasiones romanas (“Roman Passions”),[5] on
which critics were really harsh. Why did you want to sing their praises? Was it
just a literature issue, or is there anything else behind? Do you think these
authors are/have been injured more than they deserved?
JO: I liked Lucía much more
when I was younger, and I just wanted—needed—to mirror an author’s manners. I
read Pasiones romanas in 2007, and I
loved it; when I heard that this book had received so much negative criticism,
it really shocked me. And as I was intensely working on the novel by then, I
decided to make a mention. But this is just another mention, another anecdote. Caprichos del destino is a novel knitted
on old remnants from the storehouse of memory. This is nothing but a simple
literature remark, as well as Judith’s criticism, since she is an over judgemental
woman.
SGF: Have you thought about what is going to happen in the life of
little Maerwyn? She represents the future of woman—
JO: Do not even mention it. At
the present time, I flatly refuse to write a trilogy. Believe me, I have more
than ten projects waiting for the go-ahead; I imagine that any story may get
sequels or spin-offs if the author is determined and readers are longing for.
But I really mean that I have too many projects to be held up embroiling a
thing that looks good just the way it is now. I actually have fantasized about
it, that is true; but this is just fantasy, a dream. “Que toda
la vida es sueño / y los sueños, sueños son,”[6] as
Calderón said.
SGF: What are you working on now? What are your next steps?
JO: Now I am involved in
several things, and I do not know pretty well which one must go first: a
historical saga, another new adult saga, a love triangle drama (I am really keen
on these issues, as you can see), a couple of weepers with a touch of
historical facts—So much to do, so little time. Horreur!!!!
[1]
Julia Ortega / Judith Ordóñez. Note they both share same initials. This way, the
author makes obvious this affective connection to her creation.
[2] This day pro-independence parties won the regional elections in
Catalonia, and this administration consequently organized a popular vote on
November 9, in which people expressed whether they wanted to break away from
the Spanish nation. This referendum has not been considered legal, and ongoing
political and judicial proceedings on this matter are being carried out at
present.
[3] The
more or less literal translation would be: I
chew but cannot swallow you. It is used to express you can hardly get on
with someone but never be friends with. I do not know any equivalent expression
in English. Perhaps cannot stomach
something or somebody, but this expression sounds to me a bit more categorical
than the Spanish one.
[4] Even more, as this interview was made months before the terrorist
attacks in Paris last November. In addition to the Catalonian independence
issue abovementioned, Ortega’s novels have undoubtedly achieved a trending
dimension.
[5] Nadal and Planeta literary awards are extremely popular in Spain, so
their presence in mass media is nationwide. Some of the most outstanding
Spanish (and Latin American) authors have won these awards. Regarding the
Planeta, two Nobel Prize-winning authors (Camilo José Cela and Mario Vargas
Llosa) are on the list of past winners.
Etxebarria’s
novel is about the story of love/friendship between two teen girls and its
progression over time, somehow similar to Ortega’s creations Alex and Gill’s. I
still have not read Pasiones romanas,
but according to several references, this is also a romance novel dealing with
non corresponding love stories—a predominant topic in Ortega’s bilogy.
[6] Since one’s whole life is a
dream, / and dreams are dreams themselves.
Well-remembered last lines in Pedro Calderón de la Barca’s play Life is a Dream (Original title: La vida es sueño); a total classic from
the Spanish Golden Age literature.
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